Should we expect pressure from Europe to change our abortion laws?
December 162009
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Republic-Of-Irelands-Abortion-Laws-In-Legal-Challenge-In-European-Court-Of-Human-Rights/Article/200912215496539?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_6&lid=ARTICLE_15496539_Republic_Of_Irelands_Abortion_Laws_In_Legal_Challenge_In_European_Court_Of_Human_Rights
Wasn’t one of the guarantees about the Lisbon treaty that they would stay out of our business over abortion? What is the point in giving us a "guarantee" when they can challenge the country over the law later on?
No. Any laws can be tested in the European court.
People seem to think that abortion is a religious issue – it’s not. It’s a moral and legal issue, that has nothing to do with ‘being ruled’ by the catholic church. Maybe we Irish just have a problem with destroying human life.
December 16th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
They said Lisbon wouldn’t change anything about our abortion laws. However it is well known that our abortion laws are against EU policy even before Lisbon comes into affect. It has absolutely nothing to do with Lisbon.
The fact that this case is being heard today means it was brought up long before Lisbon and also reiterates the point that it has nothing to do with anything brought in by Lisbon.
If you understood European Law then you would not for one second associate this with Lisbon. The European Court of Human Rights was established in 1959 (50 years before we voted yes to Lisbon) in order to deal with violations of the European Convention of Human Rights from 1950 (59 years before we voted yes to Lisbon). Our abortion law is contradictory to the ECHR. Nothing to do with Lisbon unless Lisbon was secretly ratified 50 years ago.
Furthermore like Barbara said this is being carried out because of the complaints received by 4 women living in Ireland who had to go to the UK for abortions.
As explained on the ECHR site these women
"rely on Articles 2 (right to life) and 3 (prohibition of inhuman and or degrading treatment) of the European Convention on Human Rights. They all also complain, under Article 8 (right to respect for family and private life) of the Convention, that the national law on abortion was not sufficiently clear and precise, since the Constitutional term “unborn” was vague and the criminal prohibition on abortion was open to different interpretations. The fact that women – provided they had sufficient resources – could travel outside Ireland to have an abortion defeated the aim of the restriction and the fact that abortion was available in Ireland only in very limited circumstances was disproportionate and excessive. Furthermore, the restriction placed an excessive burden on the applicants as women, in breach of Article 14 (prohibition of discrimination), and particularly on the first applicant, whose financial means were extremely limited."
Note that there is no mention of Lisbon anywhere but that is probably because the application was launched in 2005 (4 years before we voted yes to Lisbon).
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December 16th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Europe isn’t pressuring us to change the abortion law. This is a case being brought by 3 (or 4 ) individual Irish women to the European courts.
If they win their case, then maybe Europe will put pressure on the nation to change the law, in the same way any case carried by the European courts would have.
I hope they win, last time I checked, we weren’t ruled by the church, and secular law should never be a national law.
So, as far as I can see, it has nothing to do with the Lisbon treaty, and abortion was one of the issues misrepresented by the anti Lisbon rally. Maybe if they focused on the real issue, they might have had a better campaign.
n.
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December 16th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Europe isn’t forcing us to change our abortion laws, this has to do with a small group of people challenging the laws not Lisbon.
I hope the law does change, as Barbara B said, we aren’t ruled by the church anymore.
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December 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
As Barbara B said Its just a few women trying to fight their case. I’m very pro-life though so i’ll be hoping it’ll never come it :-S
EDIT–> I was just thinking.. i know it looks kind of bad on me because everyone has thumbs down except me bt i promise I gave no thumbs down on this question!
Also I agree with Orla C, i cann’t see this law coming in to Ireland anytime soon.
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December 16th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Personally I was quite anti-Lisbon. But I am very much pro-choice, I believe it’s a womans choice to do what she wants with her body. I’ve campaigned for the right to choice in the past and would do so in the future if, when, the question arises again. I wasn’t aware of the case that was starting in Europe, great news…………but we’ll just have to wait to see what happens, I wouldn’t be overly optomistic yet. Hopefully, the times they are a changing……….
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December 16th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
No. Any laws can be tested in the European court.
People seem to think that abortion is a religious issue – it’s not. It’s a moral and legal issue, that has nothing to do with ‘being ruled’ by the catholic church. Maybe we Irish just have a problem with destroying human life.
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December 16th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I think when a woman’s pregnancy endangers her health in a serious way, she should not be forced to go through with it.
I don’t think that abortion should be available anyway in such a way that it’s a convenient method of birth control for people who can’t be bothered to get birth control in the first place. People – not just women – have worked hard for a long time for the right to control their fertility. We have that responsibility.
I don’t think abortion will become available in Ireland like this for a VERY long time.
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December 16th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
The Irish people have voted in three seperate referenda to keep abortion illegal. They voted no to Lisbon 1 because of this, just last year. Europe cannot possibly have the power to overrule our democratic rights to rule ourselves.
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